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	<title>Comments on: Preventative Repentance</title>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/comment-page-1/#comment-11599</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/#comment-11599</guid>
		<description>This is a discussion I&#039;ve had many times with some of my friends, but the moment I suggest that abortion should not, in my opinion, be used as a birth control method, they assume that I believe it should be made illegal again in the U.S., and the discussion goes downhill from there. End of argument. They won&#039;t hear another word. How does one convince them that abortion, as a means of birth control, just cannot be what God desires for his children? (For the most part, these are fallen-away Catholics and non-believers, so just saying &quot;it&#039;s sinful&quot; probably won&#039;t work.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a discussion I&#8217;ve had many times with some of my friends, but the moment I suggest that abortion should not, in my opinion, be used as a birth control method, they assume that I believe it should be made illegal again in the U.S., and the discussion goes downhill from there. End of argument. They won&#8217;t hear another word. How does one convince them that abortion, as a means of birth control, just cannot be what God desires for his children? (For the most part, these are fallen-away Catholics and non-believers, so just saying &#8220;it&#8217;s sinful&#8221; probably won&#8217;t work.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/comment-page-1/#comment-11431</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/#comment-11431</guid>
		<description>Ah, ok.

As for the seeming hypocrisy...well, I guess it depends on where/when/how you are educated.  If a great deal of stress is placed on the forbiddance of condoms et al., and &quot;no sex before marriage&quot; is barely mentioned (or even not at all, since it may just be assumed knowledge), then yeah, I can see someone passing on the condoms yet still having sex.  Especially since sex is a much more natural drive than fumbling with a condom is.  After all, as far as the Church goes, sex isn&#039;t always bad, but using a condom always is.  To the mind of a teenager, that makes one much more forgivable (and therefore &quot;less bad&quot;) than the other.

The &quot;abortion as birth control&quot; conclusion is nutty, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, ok.</p>
<p>As for the seeming hypocrisy&#8230;well, I guess it depends on where/when/how you are educated.  If a great deal of stress is placed on the forbiddance of condoms et al., and &#8220;no sex before marriage&#8221; is barely mentioned (or even not at all, since it may just be assumed knowledge), then yeah, I can see someone passing on the condoms yet still having sex.  Especially since sex is a much more natural drive than fumbling with a condom is.  After all, as far as the Church goes, sex isn&#8217;t always bad, but using a condom always is.  To the mind of a teenager, that makes one much more forgivable (and therefore &#8220;less bad&#8221;) than the other.</p>
<p>The &#8220;abortion as birth control&#8221; conclusion is nutty, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Benoit</title>
		<link>http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/comment-page-1/#comment-11428</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Benoit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/#comment-11428</guid>
		<description>Eric, it wasn&#039;t the dialogue between the two characters that caught my attention (I had read similar versions of it like the one provided by Aiden so I barely glanced at it to be honest... I just now realize following your comment that it&#039;s actually two guys speaking in that particular example...!) 

What I found interesting was the author&#039;s remark (&quot;[Will] people who habitually put their souls in jeopardy by mortally sinful sex going to be seized in mediis rebus by scruples and -- in obedience to Vatican directives -- put their lives at risk as well, i.e., by refusing a condom (?)&quot;  I thought it was a good parallel to Fr. Nicolai&#039;s own comment &quot;It is rather difficult for me to imagine these pious Catholics, and Catholics who supposedly obediently don’t use contraception because of an “imposition” of the bishops, yet then can tranquilly go and have abortion.&quot; Sorry if the link offended anyone. I have removed it since- as Aiden points out- his version of the dialogue makes the same point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, it wasn&#8217;t the dialogue between the two characters that caught my attention (I had read similar versions of it like the one provided by Aiden so I barely glanced at it to be honest&#8230; I just now realize following your comment that it&#8217;s actually two guys speaking in that particular example&#8230;!) </p>
<p>What I found interesting was the author&#8217;s remark (&#8220;[Will] people who habitually put their souls in jeopardy by mortally sinful sex going to be seized in mediis rebus by scruples and &#8212; in obedience to Vatican directives &#8212; put their lives at risk as well, i.e., by refusing a condom (?)&#8221;  I thought it was a good parallel to Fr. Nicolai&#8217;s own comment &#8220;It is rather difficult for me to imagine these pious Catholics, and Catholics who supposedly obediently don’t use contraception because of an “imposition” of the bishops, yet then can tranquilly go and have abortion.&#8221; Sorry if the link offended anyone. I have removed it since- as Aiden points out- his version of the dialogue makes the same point.</p>
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		<title>By: Aiden</title>
		<link>http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/comment-page-1/#comment-11419</link>
		<dc:creator>Aiden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 03:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/#comment-11419</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a parallel version that&#039;s perhaps in better taste, this time from Creative Minority Report

http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2007/10/united-nations-latin-lovers.html


According to the United Nations, there are many conversations occurring in Latin America similar to the one below:


Manuela: Jose, you are a very handsome man. I wish to make love to you.

Jose: Si, Manuela. I can feel your desire. You too are a very beautiful woman and I wish to make love to you as well.

Manuela: Jose, just for your informacion, you will be my ninth partner this year. Also, for further consideration, you may wish to know that I never even knew the name of my last three lovers.

Jose: Ay. Thank you Manuela for sharing this critical information. I too have been with many partners of which I have little recollection. This, however, does not dampen my desire for you.

Manuela: Bueno. Since this is our first date, I will let you pick the motel.

Jose: Gracias Manuela, that is very considerate.

Manuela: Jose, on the way to the motel, where we intend to fornicate, do you think that we should pick up some condoms as recommended by the United Nations to prevent the spread of AIDS?

Jose: ¡Ay, caramba! Manuela, do you not know that the Catholic Church prohibits the use of contraception? Manuela, my darling, it has been the consistent teaching of the Popes and the full Magisterium of the Church that the use of contraception is immoral and gravely sinful.

Manuela: Jose, I am aware of this fact. But I just thought that since we are ignoring the Church&#039;s consistent and explicit prohibition on sex outside of marriage that we need not adhere to other teachings as well.

Jose: I see your point my darling Manuela. No matter how ridiculous and inconsistent it may seem, the stigma attached to the use of contraception reinforced by the church, forces me to put my life and yours, not to mention the numerous sexual partners I intend to have after you, at risk. I have no choice. That is my final decision.

Manuela: Jose, I understand and respect your decision. I do, however, have one more question. What do we do if I get pregnant?

Jose: Oh, no problemo my little flower. We will just get an abortion.

Manuela: Come to me, my lover!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a parallel version that&#8217;s perhaps in better taste, this time from Creative Minority Report</p>
<p><a href="http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2007/10/united-nations-latin-lovers.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.creativeminorityreport.com/2007/10/united-nations-latin-lovers.html</a></p>
<p>According to the United Nations, there are many conversations occurring in Latin America similar to the one below:</p>
<p>Manuela: Jose, you are a very handsome man. I wish to make love to you.</p>
<p>Jose: Si, Manuela. I can feel your desire. You too are a very beautiful woman and I wish to make love to you as well.</p>
<p>Manuela: Jose, just for your informacion, you will be my ninth partner this year. Also, for further consideration, you may wish to know that I never even knew the name of my last three lovers.</p>
<p>Jose: Ay. Thank you Manuela for sharing this critical information. I too have been with many partners of which I have little recollection. This, however, does not dampen my desire for you.</p>
<p>Manuela: Bueno. Since this is our first date, I will let you pick the motel.</p>
<p>Jose: Gracias Manuela, that is very considerate.</p>
<p>Manuela: Jose, on the way to the motel, where we intend to fornicate, do you think that we should pick up some condoms as recommended by the United Nations to prevent the spread of AIDS?</p>
<p>Jose: ¡Ay, caramba! Manuela, do you not know that the Catholic Church prohibits the use of contraception? Manuela, my darling, it has been the consistent teaching of the Popes and the full Magisterium of the Church that the use of contraception is immoral and gravely sinful.</p>
<p>Manuela: Jose, I am aware of this fact. But I just thought that since we are ignoring the Church&#8217;s consistent and explicit prohibition on sex outside of marriage that we need not adhere to other teachings as well.</p>
<p>Jose: I see your point my darling Manuela. No matter how ridiculous and inconsistent it may seem, the stigma attached to the use of contraception reinforced by the church, forces me to put my life and yours, not to mention the numerous sexual partners I intend to have after you, at risk. I have no choice. That is my final decision.</p>
<p>Manuela: Jose, I understand and respect your decision. I do, however, have one more question. What do we do if I get pregnant?</p>
<p>Jose: Oh, no problemo my little flower. We will just get an abortion.</p>
<p>Manuela: Come to me, my lover!</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/comment-page-1/#comment-11418</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 02:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/#comment-11418</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.  While I guess the link makes its point, Fr. Benoit, it is in poor taste.  A bit surprised you provided it.

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.  While I guess the link makes its point, Fr. Benoit, it is in poor taste.  A bit surprised you provided it.</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Benoit Morrier</title>
		<link>http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/comment-page-1/#comment-11417</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Benoit Morrier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://adventus.org/en/ericnicolai/preventative-repentance/#comment-11417</guid>
		<description>Another interesting &quot;how silly to think that&quot; argument is made here regarding condoms : (Catholic World News article) [link removed : see comments below].</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another interesting &#8220;how silly to think that&#8221; argument is made here regarding condoms : (Catholic World News article) [link removed : see comments below].</p>
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